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The iPad and what it means for Java
Submitted by Josh Fruhlinger on Tue, 02/02/2010 - 17:43.
In my last post, I made a little joke about the closing of the Sun-Oracle deal being overshadowed by Apple's big iPad announcement. The folks at Oracle would almost certainly have preferred that their deal closed perhaps a few days earlier or later, so they wouldn't have to compete with the Apple marketing juggernaut. The two presentations were aimed at wildly different audiences; but still, there were important (and possibly troubling) hints at Java's future hidden in Apple's messaging.
First, let's consider the biggest knock against the iPad: that's it's just a "big iPod Touch." One of the big knocks on the iPad and iPhone is that they don't support Flash, but of course, they don't support Java either, and for the same reason -- there will be no runtimes on iPhone OS devices, period. This means that the only Java apps making their way to the iPhone will be those whose code has been converted via XMLVM or the like. The Java community seems to have gotten past its initial desperate hopes that the iPhone OS would support Java someday and have settled into sullen acquiescence; presumably, they will join the rising time of tech commentary deriding the iPad's hopes.
Believe it or not, I'm on the record as also deriding those hopes, though I don't think the absence of Java (or Flash) is going to turn out to be a big motivating factor. Developers have an exaggerated view of the importance of their favorite tools to the success and failure of various platforms, particularly those aimed at consumers. But the success or failure of the iPad as a device is in some ways besides the point. As folks like Steven Frank and John Gruber have opined, the iPad shows that Apple, at least, sees the future of general-interest computing in platforms that abstract nearly all of what we think of as the typical complexity of using a computer away from the user.
Part of abstracting that complexity away involves ditching things like Flash runtimes and Java VMs. Google is a major mover behind this movement as well, with their Chrome OS project whose UI will consist solely of a browser window. While Google tend to be more agnostic about plugins, they're moving in parallel with Apple on a push to use JavaScript and HTML 5 for in-browser media and functionality that once would be the province of something like Java.
So Java ME (not counting the nonstandard KVM that underlies Android) has essentially been locked out of the emerging smartphone market, being restricted to the second-tier "feature phone" market that doesn't have a long-term future. And if this new model of computing takes hold, Java may be forever banished from the desktop (or the future's desktop equivalents) as well. Which leaves the server, which is probably never going to be made a slick, locked down appliance -- or if it is, it will be one built by Oracle with Java at its core. It's not a terrible future for the platform, but it is one that's a lot more limited than the initial vision for it.
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HTML5, Flash, Java,
HTML5, Flash, Java, Silverlight, Objective C all have their place. The developer hysteria is getting a little crazy
I wrote on this recently: How to choose the appropriate UI platform
http://is.gd/7vO35
Could be a nice idea to put
Could be a nice idea to put the criteria list from your blog into the Analytic Hierarchy Process (or one of its derivatives).
This would add a scientific flavor to the UI platform selection process and also it would impress your customers :)
Derp Deplume
You wrote a lot.. but you didn't really say anything. You could have summed up the entire posting as; "Use the tools that are best for the platform you are deploying to and quit bitching".
And Android is a significant platform. Just because you lack long-term vision doesn't mean you should cast aspersions with regard to it.
Java ME
Java ME has been locked out of far more than just the iPad due to a lack of a coherent vision for the platform. I recall trying to do some Java programming for the Palm OS many years ago. One day, the platform support disappeared (though this was as much Palm's fault as Java).
Then, JavaFX shows up as either a replacement for or an enhancement to Java ME and all things MIDP. Or not - I'm still not sure, and at this point, I don't care.
Anti-competitive practice suit
I love Apple, but Oracle & Adobe should sue them for the right to provide Flash & Java on the iPhone/iPad (at least as App Store apps). Imagine if Sony had won the Beta-Max war, and charged everyone 30% to sell videos, and rejected videos that they didn't like.
App Store
Actually the App store is more than likely the reason we will never see Java or Flash player plug-ins un-blocked in Safari on these platforms.
Java is a direct competitor for the App Store, and if made available would cut into their bottom line. Java would allow iPod and iPhone users access to hundreds of thousands of pieces of content including games and video none of which they can make a profit from.
Your comment happens to be
Your comment happens to be not just informative but also very stimulating too.
jon boat | boat ramp
iPAD's walled garden will have to compete with real computers
Real $200 tablet computers that is.
It could be as this article suggests that computer and computing could be dumbed down to nothing more than the web. Like an animated magazine where the pages have video and new content streamed in. And I suppose accessing the Internet could be proprietized into an Apple portal or a Google portal or an Amazon portal or a National Chinese portal etc...
Perhaps in a few years you'll buy these machines, in your local Walgrens Drug store next to the alarm clocks and radios - in a blister pack.
But then such machines would stop being a computers that can do anything you an image. And ALL future computer ideas would have to wait to be webified.
And then proprietized to each portal.
I'm skeptical.
Like the Kindle, I wouldn't classify the iPad as a computer. Altho it is more computer like. And I can't watch YouTube, I can't watch Hulu? Are you kidding me? I think the competition and the market place will punish Apple for that.
Like the iPODs, I can't see anyone buying an iPad instead of a computer unless they didn't need a computer. It is more of a niche product for the well to do.
Mr. Jobs made that mistake when Apple designed the Lisa and the NeXT computers. And the Apple Air.
Virus free casual browser
I can see a real place for the iPad, I'm interested in buying one.
The concept of picking up a lite device from the coffee table to do a quick browse without having to leave the family, start up a PC (with virus updates etc) etc appeals to me.
I've been running my PC with a flash blocker for the past few weeks, I haven't missed much and most pages load quicker (most flash is just adds)
If the web is to extend to everyone, like TV and newspapers we need devices like this. Simple, with little room for 'trouble' (ie apple vetting all apps)
Paul.
YouTube works on iPad
>> And I can't watch YouTube, I can't watch Hulu?
What do you mean? YouTube works on iPad since day 1 and Hulu is developing HTML5 version, due out in May. So all you lose is those miserable Flash games in exchange for so much more enjoyable iPad games (with so many free).
Lisa and NeXT
Yes the Apple Lisa was a bad idea from Apple but NeXT was a company started by Steve Jobs when he left Apple and was not an Apple product. When NeXT folded Apple purchased the OS used by NeXT and turned it into OSX.
should sue
Yes I agree that Sun, and now, Oracle, should sue Apple to open up their devices to Java.
XML VM byte code translate
"...Yet another transformation allows to cross-compile a Java program to Objective-C to create a native iPhone application...."
So, theoretically, one could take a Java app, cross compile the bytecode to the XML VM and have an iPhone or iPod app. Ya think?
The JVM is not a right
I find it hilarious that people are actually suggesting Adobe and Oracle sue Apple for not allowing alternative runtimes on their iPhone/touch/pad platforms.
First of all, Apple doesn't have a monopoly on anything (the only thing that comes close is the iTunes music store, and that's still a difficult case to make).
Secondly, there is no constitutional right to have a JVM installed on every operating system. The "write once, run anywhere" propaganda has gotten to your heads. It's expensive enough to support public APIs on any platform. Allowing alternative runtimes involves real development, QA, and production support costs. Why should Apple be forced to pay to support Adobe's Flash business model and Oracle's Java business model, both of which are extremely flawed if they count on their respective runtimes being installed everywhere.
Apple is under no obligation to provide alternative runtimes. They sell a product (either Macs, iPhones/iPods/iPads) for which there are plenty of competitors. As the vendor of the product, they are free to do what they wish with it. GM is under no obligation to allow you to install Linux on top of their OnStar system.
Adobe and Oracle aren't stupid enough to sue Apple to include their respective runtimes on iPhoneOS, because they know that any judge would subsequently tell them to f*** off and get out of their courtroom.
I hope judges are not as
I hope judges are not as rude as you.
Missing the point
The problem isn't that Apple won't provide a Flash or Java runtime for the iPhone OS - it is that they won't *allow* Adobe or Oracle to do so.
Other ways
As the article suggested, it IS possible to write Java applications to run on the iPhone.
iSpectrum by FlexyCore is a solution to develop Java apps using Eclipse. It is then compiled to native code so it can be installed on the device. It is also linked with XCode so as to use the simulator.
When the portability of Java meets the efficiency of native code ;).
More info at : http://www.flexycore.com
teach Apple a lesson
One thing to solve the problem is: someone come up a solution on cheaper lower power consumption cool but powerful, 2ghz, duo core CPU with built-in GPU to knock Apple out of their chair in iphone/ipad as Desktop did in the late 80's help reshape dictatorship alike marketing strategy as Microsoft did in the 90's. Thus will shake up their elegant from over achieve and over success in the past few yrs. Apple didn't make it themselves, we consumers did. A great innovation would be junk if no one buy it.
Make sure that would be
Make sure that would be tablet run neither Microsoft related OS or Apple OS to take a new step toward a new era. Android, Linux, BSD is fine.
blackberry and apple pie
Blackberrys run an embedded version of java me so what are the chances of Apple allowing the platform on their devices? Slim to zero as they always strive to deny any form of interoperability that doesn't involve them widening their footprint.
Java on the Ipad: It exists
The Answer: Google Web Toolkit
Sun has always had a myopic idea that Java is the VM. Fact of the matter is most Java developers don't care what technology runs their code, they just like writing in the Java language.
With Google and Apple joining forces on Web5 we can expect to use many of the tools google provides in the iPad environment.
Java is more than a "Forms" API....
... it includes quite a lot of additional functionality that is not limited to displaying web pages:
AFAIK, Google Web Toolkit, while a perfectly nice tool, is really just a javascript generator on the clientside, and doesn't nearly do all the things you might need to do in any kind of more complex client application.
[I do MMO game development in Java]
It serves a purpose, but...
I love my iPad. Plain and simple...it's convenient. The kids and I take it everywhere. My only grip is that the kids can't use their educational websites because they require a java applet to run. Does anyone know a work around?
Java for iPad
They should start making Java applicable for all Apple products (MacBook (Pro), iPhone, iPad) and all other devices made by Apple corporation, because their are some gamers that uses a Mac OS for gaming and unfortunately uses Java applets for the game engine, maybe Apple Corp. will get this fixed and along with making the iPad USB compatible so people with flash drives can more effectively work, and not to mention about those who back their files on a USB external hard drive.
No Java No IPad in the classroom
I teach at a school that that will have all the freshman walking through the doors next year with either an IPad or a laptop (most likely macbook). Without the ability to run Java or shockwave, the school won't buy them because so many educational applets/animations won't run.
The education market is a huge consumer of mac products. They are really missing out on lots of revenue without by not having java.
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