JavaWorld
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Reged: 06/20/03
Posts: 482
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Choosing a Java scripting language
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Anonymous
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Thanks for the informative article. However I still don't see the benefit of integrating/using a scripting language with Java. One of the benefits you tout:
For one thing, scripting languages can be simpler to code in than Java.
It seems to me that if you're coding in Java you've made a concious decision to learn the language. Therefore, why not learn the language versus learning a scripting language to ease development in Java! Convoluted logic don't you agree??
I'm not entirely sold on the other benefits you mentioned either. Maybe I'm thick but I just don't understand the allure of scripting languages!
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anonymous
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So many programmers don't see the benefits of integrating
a scripting language in their applications.
I find it surprising as an embedded scripted language adds
so much value to any extensible application.
To me It's a bit like saying I don't see the value of a plug-in architecture.
In my opinion the only way we can build extensible and flexible applications is by using frameworks which encourage scripting architectures.
This article has just touched the surface by evaluating
different scripting languages...
The truth is what we might need now is a framework that
tells us how to use them effectively.
Incidentally this is what I saw the guys from the open source http://www.seppia.org are trying to tackle.
Have a look in there and see if you change your mind...
You might not though...
cheers
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Anonymous
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I absolutely see the benefit of plug-in architectures for commerical products such as IDEs. In such a product providing an extensible framework makes sense. But as a regular "business application programmer" I already have the extensibility I need in the language itself - extensibility through inheritance. Why do I need another mechanism when the built-in language feature fits the bill? Is this another case of looking for a problem to fit the solution??
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anonymous
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My point is that any "serious" application needs to be built against a plug-in architecture (not just IDEs)
Plugability is great but we still need to do provide a framework to wire the plugins. XML is a way, property files is another and Scripting in my opinion is even better.
The truth is that if we are talking about small applications
I agree with you that all this fuss about plugins and scripts is nonsense. Java is just great and undoubtely sufficient.
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Anonymous
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My web application is an ETL tool, I use Groovy as an extension point for my end users. It is a simple way of adding extensibility to your product. It works a treat and my users are happy. The fact I can compile their scripts is an added bonus.
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Anonymous
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Who are your end users?! Programmers?! If I asked my end users - business people with no background in computer science - that the ETL tool that I wrote can be extended by using a scripting language and that they were responsible for writing the extensions they'd look at me like I had three heads! You can argue extensibility all you want but to offer as proof that normal end users would/can use these scripting languages is a bit naive!
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pirx
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The article is very informative and useful. Thanks.
More general problems:
- every platform develops some scripting language sooner or later (shell/unix vbscript/win) so the need is obviously there and something is bound to happen on Java.
- the scripting language is usually very different from the basic platform language, as it has to support different needs. All java scripting languages so far seem to be too close to java or to their original parents (python as an extreme example)
- that is bad, as you can't argue that you are seriously reducing code size or error probability - the programs written in java will still require similar number of lines - and scripting languages do not have that good IDE support as Java (most have none).
- seems to me like there are no convincing scripting languages for the java platform yet. Another step is required. It may take form of having more functional language constructs, like list comprehensions, first-class functions etc - sort of Scala w/o types. It may take other forms, too.
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kamilyon
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Hello,
I would agree at looking at it from the view of advanced property file. For example, you can use beanshell to work as a dynamic expression calculator for a portion of a program that evaluates differently based on the user profile. So the interpreter works as a parser and evaluator. I would have had to make this anyway, but now it is not heavily proprietary to my application.
It is true that there are new features that are added to java over time, but some constructs and syntax sugar are here "now" with these tools on old and new JVMs. Good day.
Yemi Bedu
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